Wife shoots HP22A for the first time!

[GreyGeek]

http://www.phoenix-arms.com/Products/HP22A.html

A month ago my wife and I went to Ikes to give her a chance to shoot my 9mm Nano.  After about 15-20 shots she didn't want to shoot the pistol anymore because:
1) it was too heavy
2) it was too hard to hold while aiming
3) it was too hard to cycle the slide
4) the trigger was too hard to pull and too long
4) and it recoiled too much, causing her to flinch when she pulled the trigger

That's when I decided to get the  HP22A semi-auto .22LR pistol.

Today  we went out to  Ikes so she could learn how to shoot it.  The results were even better than I had anticipated.
1) she didn't mind the weight
2) it was NOT hard to hold while aiming
3) it was easy for her to cycle the slide
4) the trigger pull was short and easy
5) and it had next to no recoil.  She didn't flinch when pulling the  trigger on an empty chamber.
6) the sight picture was blury because of the  nickel plating.  That's going to get fixed quickly.

At 7 yards her first round missed the 8.5X11" paper on which two 3" bulls were placed.  The next round hit the right bull dead  center.   The next  40 or so rounds were scattered around the paper, but as she caught on to the correct combination of sight picture and trigger squeeze they began to focus on the paper and got steadily closer to the two bulls.  The last 15 had 8 rounds in the bullseye and the rest within 2" inches of the bull at various locations around the clock.

About half way through our shooting session I loaded 10 rounds in the magazine and gave the  HP22A a try, to see if her early problems were hers or the gun.   All 10 rounds were in the top 60% of the 3"  bullseye.   The HP22A is a very accurate little gun.   After that we did more work on her grip, sight pattern and squeeze.   

Overall, the  results were far better than I expected for the first time shooting this mouse.

We were using CCI 40 gr RNL standard velocity (1,070f/s).   The ammo worked perfectly for me.  My wife had one failure to load the next round, but  she quickly recycled the slide on  her own.  She also removed the magazine, loaded it, and re-inserted it into the pistol herself, and cycled the slide to load the first round.   She had no trouble using the safety switch or the mag release button.  I left the firing pin safety switch on the fire position.  Some reported that it was loose and would fall into  the safety position on its own.  That switch on  our HP22A was difficult to move to the safe position with  the thumb alone. 

I found that the takedown procedure is much more difficult than that of my Nano.  Re-assembly is tricky as well.  The manual doesn't describe the process very well and the pictures are not helpful.  The problem is that the recoil spring can easily buckle and pop out of the frame, both while taking the weapon apart and putting it back to gether.  I've  found that the key is not to rely on your finger to  hold the spring down but to use the slide frame to hold the spring in the compressed position.

Anyway.  All-in-all I am very pleased with the HP22A.   Most of the problems I've read that some users are having are related to the fact that they ignored the caution  in the manual about using ONLY 40gr standard .22LR ammo with a velocity between 1,050 and 1,180 f/s.

[Gary]

Sweet!

Cycling problems with this gun can be caused by having a limp wrist, allowing the gun too much movement, dissipating the energy needed to cycle the action.

What are your goals as a couple, of her shooting?

If it is self defense, any .22 has limitations, and this gun may tend to magnify those issues.

If you guys have any goals of her obtaining a CHP, something with a little more throttle in the accelerator may end up being your goal. 

Getting her used to shooting is half the battle.  One fear I have is the smallness of this gun, may have a few more chances for problems than say a Rugar .22.  Jams, stovepipes, feeding issues, etc. 

As I recall, this gun has two safeties?  I had sold a few of these over the years in my gun store.  You are working with a gun with a higher overall quality and satisfaction rating than a Raven or similar gun, but you are still operating with a gun that has price points to make it affordable to the masses.   

Make sure she keeps her thumb of her left hand pointing forward, and not wrapping it over her other thumb.  Also make sure she keeps her fingers (left especially) from out in front of that short barrel. 

[abbafandr]

I've looked at one of these pistols several times.  Never pulled the trigger yet though

The real question is:  where do you get the ammo?

[GreyGeek]

where do you get the ammo?

From the only places they are available -- online auctions.   Gun stores get their usual shipments from distributors and manufacturers and then, instead of putting them on the shelves or on their online stores at pre-shortage prices, they sell them on GunBroker.com for 2X to 3X the pre-shortage prices.

But, I got an email from Natchez about a wide selection of ammo available online and when I checked their offerings they were offering them at the same price GunBroker does.  For example,  they offered

Federal Premium Gold Medal - 223 Rem. 69gr Sierra MatchKing BTHP 20/Box FAGM223M Sale $36.49

That's $1.82 per round.

At GunBroker you have:
Federal 223REM Sierra 69GR Match King BTHP 100RDS for $169.99 or $.170 per round.

The HP22A I bought was from GunBroker and it cost me $145.  It was $140-150 before the shortage.

I don't like paying higher prices for ammo and stuff but I've come to  the opinion that with the shutdown of the only lead smelter plant in the USA at the end of this year the ammo shortage continue and become the new normal.   I want my wife to qualify for the CHP  by the end of the year.  She can't do that with snap cartridges.

[GreyGeek]

I found this interesting information about .22LR muzzle velocities for various lengths of barrels:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-616571.html

22LR Barrel Length vs. Velocity.

Barrel length vs velocity seems to always be a topic of interest to most hunters. But with the 22LR cartridge, rifle length barrels can actually reduce the velocity potential of this round.

In the VOL. 9, NO. 4 issue of GUNS & AMMO magazine, Bob Milek wrote an article titled: BARREL LENGTH VS VELOCITY, where he took a number of barrels and guns and cut down the barrels in one inch increments, measuring the velocity loss at each step of the process for a number of centerfires as well as the 22LRs. It's a very interesting article. Here are the velocities recorded for the 22LR starting at 14 inches and going down to 4 inches.

14" = 1,105 fps.
13" = 1,106
12" = 1,110
11" = 1,089
10" = 1,114
..9" = 1,077
..8" = 1,063
..7" = 1,057
..6" = 1,024
..5" = ..959
..4" = ..927 fps.

The 11 inch velocity was an anomaly which turns up from time to time in nearly all firearms testing. As can be seen, any barrel length between 6 and 10 inches will produce very acceptable velocities and energies with the 22LR. Different brands of ammo will produce some minor velocity variations, but not enough to make all that much of a difference in performance. The above tests were conducted with Winchester HV Solids.

In the 1986 issue of SHOOTING TIMES, in an article titled: T/C's SENSATIONAL NEW SHOOTING SYSTEM, the following velocities were recorded for 22LR high velocity loads.

10" = 1,229 fps ...4 group R-P 36-Gr HP REM HV
10" = 1,498 fps ...9 group CCI 32-Gr HP STINGERS
10" = 1,417 fps 1.1 group W-W 29-Gr HP EXTREMES

Just guessing but that would put the muzzle velocity of the HP22A with the 3" barrel at about 900 f/s, which would give a muzzle energy of 72 ft-lbs.   Supposedly, the old standard for ,22 lethality was 59 ft-lbs, the amount of energy needed to force a 40 gr .22 bullet through a 1/2" pine board.

[Ronvandyn]

I have one of these pistols as well, nice little plinkers. 

I find the California restrictions on the gun a bit cumbersome to deal with for a single action semi.  OTOH mine came with both the 3 inch and the 5 inch barrell, and changing the barrell is pretty simple.  It also came with 4 mags (used gun) which was kind of nice (Springfield Gun Auction about 2 years ago).  Never had a feed or ejection issue with mine, a solid performer.  The kids love it, but then again they also like my XD40sc. 

Ron

[GreyGeek]

nice little plinkers

That they are.  Accurate, too!  I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable the trigger pull was.  The pull was smooth and the trigger released at the back of the pull very nicely, without a hitch up  or any necessary increase in force.

My only two complaints about the HP22A are:
1) the firing pin safety block is very difficult to move to the safe position.  My thumb isn't strong enough to do it.  I have to  use an stout object to force it.  Once in the safe position a stout  object is needed  to move  it to the fire position.  This is just the opposite of complaints I read where that lever got loose and fell into the safe position with little or no prompting.
2) the disassembly requires that the lever to  start that  process be pushed forward while the hammer is cocked and the safety is off.  I can't push mine forward even with the blade of a standard screw driver, much less using two fingers to pull or push.   What I have to do is pull the slide back and hold it while I insert a small screwdriver tip behind the center part of the lever and then wedge it forward.   Reassembly is a little tricky as well.

After a hundred rounds of CCI 40gr standard velocity (1,070 fps) there was a little dirt around the breach head and along the sides of the slide.   The barrel was remarkably free of lead fouling and clean.  The pistol was very easy to clean  once disassembled.

My wife is pleased with it and didn't bat an eye when I asked  if she thought she would be ready  for her CHP class sometime at  the end  of this year or the first of the next.

[GreyGeek]

If it is self defense, any .22 has limitations, and this gun may tend to magnify those issues.

True, but it is better than a sharp stick, and no one wants to get shot.  The HP22A is lethal at the ranges that count.    However,  my plan is to work her up into a .380 auto  with a 3" barrel.  It will have a muzzle velocity of about 1,000 fps and an energy of about 200 ft-lbs, almost 3X the energy of a .22Lr out of the HP22A, but won't kick like my Nano or weight as much.

Meanwhile, she can learn to shoot accurately and practice with the HP22A and practicing will cost less than any other weapon except an airgun.