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Author Topic: I am finally handloading .223  (Read 18067 times)

Offline Dan W

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I am finally handloading .223
« on: July 11, 2009, 09:34:58 PM »
It has all come together. ( I think ?)

Last piece I needed was a Dillon case/headspace gauge.

And I decided to upgrade my single stage press to a 4 hole Lee Classic turret.

Redding  2 die set (full length resize), plus an  optional carbide free floating neck sizer (to eliminate the need to lube inside the neck)

Redding Case lube (applied by a lube pad )

Redding shell holder

Redding powder trickler

Hornady primer pocket cutter (for removing crimp)

Lee Auto Prime hand priming tool

Lee Universal Decapping die (to remove crimped primers)

Lee case trimmer, deburring tool and Lee perfect powder measure

Franford Arsenal loading blocks.

And since I already reload tons of pistol ammo, I have the requisite tumbler, digital calipers,ccccccc Digital and mechanical scales, bullet puller etc. I might still need to upgrade to a collet style bullet puller for rifle boo-boo's

Now I have cleaned, resized, trimmed to 1.750", deburred, removed the primer crimp and re-primed 300 cases. If that sounds like a lot of work...it is.

I will be trying out Hodgdon H335 and Ramshot TAC powder... first up 23.5gr H335 behind a 62gr Amscor FMJ COL 2.250" Magtech SR primer. Brass is TW73 headstamped M193 surplus, once fired in my rifles. A light crimp into the cannelure will be applied

Definitely not the highest grade components, but I thought it best to learn on something less expensive(and actually available)

Once I have mastered learned the techniques I will try to produce some consistently accurate hand loads for  my 18" RRA Rifle.

If any NFOA members have suggestions to help me achieve this goal, I would appreciate the help. I am a total noob when it comes to reloading bottle necked rifle cartridges
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 09:36:48 PM by Dan W »
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2009, 08:33:08 AM »
I use the same press as you, a lot of people bag on them for being cheap, but I've had excellent results with mine.

I've heard H335 is supposed to be good stuff for .223 but I haven't tried it yet.  Varget has worked well for me, too.  25.5 grains of Varget with a 55 grain Vmax bullet is my .223's favorite load.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 08:34:27 AM by bkoenig »
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Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2009, 10:07:37 AM »
As you probably know Varget has been very difficult to obtain lately, so when I came across 3 lbs  of H335 at Acher Arms a few weeks back, I snapped it up.

What COAL are you using the cartridge you mention above? I would like this thread to be a record for future handloading. Give me all the particulars for your pet load

I find the Lee Classic turret press to be very smooth and the heavy cast iron base quite stable. I really like the tube for catching spent primers. I am not using the auto advance or the primer ram, as I am prepping brass and priming in batches until I am really comfortable with the process. This press is allowing me to head-space the brass very accurately compared to the inconsistent results I was getting from the Lee C frame I had previously.  That cheap little press is good for applying a Lee final crimp die to pistol cartridges or for a quick removal of a damaged primer , but not much else
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 10:10:14 AM by Dan W »
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Offline Rich B

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 06:15:58 PM »
I reload .223 as well with a set of Lee Dies as well as an RCBS X-Die.

If these will be for an AR with lots of high-volume shooting, get an X-Die.  The X-Die prevents case growth during the sizing process.  One initial trim is all you need!

For case trimming, look at a Possum Hollow Kwick Case Trimmer.  It chucks into a drill and works like a pencil sharpener.  The adapter for the trimmer also fits an RCBS chamfer and deburring tool (which can also remove crimp). 

For OAL, I generally seat/crimp to cannelure.  For bullets without a cannelure, I load them long enough to fit in the magazine with some room for error, generally around 2.250". 

I've used RL7 for light bullets and Varget for 68gr OTMs.  The rest of my loading is with H335 and 55gr FMJBTs.  Comparable powders include TAC and AA2230.  I charge cases with a Lee Pro Auto Disk and ball powders like TAC, AA2230, and H335 meter very well with it. 


When I started with .223, I was over-crimping.  This flared the shoulder and caused jams, so, don't over-crimp.

I'm also paranoid about using "soft" primers like Federals in my AR, so I run CCI, either the standard SR, magnum SR, or #41 military.
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Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 08:27:08 PM »
Rich, Not a lot of info on the Magtech SR primers, but a few reports have found that the cup is of sufficient thickness and hardness for AR15 use.

And, I over crimped the hell out of my first 5, then got the adjustment down to where it just takes the sharp edge of off the neck. It takes 9-10 hard whacks with a kinetic bullet puller to get them babies back out.

Do you mind sharing your recipe for 55gr FMJBT's and H335? 

I have already figured out that my 18"  RRA likes 55's  much better than PRVI 69gr Match cartridges. That might not be the best in match ammo either...The Armscor 62gr bullets are not very consistent in OAL or Ogive, thus not real accurate, but IMHO good enough for me to learn the ropes

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Offline bkoenig

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 08:42:15 PM »
Here's my recipe:

55 Grain Vmax
25.5 grains Varget
Winchester brass trimmed using Lee case trimmer (don't recall length, but it's set by the length of the trimmer and can't be adjusted)
Federal SR primer
COAL 2.26
Roll crimped using Hornady bullet seating die.

Unfortunately I'm out of Varget so I need to try something new.  I have about 75 rounds left that I loaded this spring and I've been hoarding them.

In my Savage 12FV with a 26" barrel and 6-18 Swift scope I can put 5 shots into a half inch at 100 yards.  I haven't done much shooting with that rifle since buying it so I haven't gotten it out further than that.  I mean to take it to one of the 300 yard benchrest days at the Ikes some time and see what it can do.  I've also done some work to the gun that helps accuracy - filled the flimsy factory forend with epoxy to stiffen it, floated the barrel, and bedded around the recoil lug and action pillars.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 08:49:11 PM by bkoenig »
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Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 09:21:17 PM »
There is a 300 yard informal shoot at the Lincoln Ike's this Saturday...

I will be at the Ike's, but I am shooting the Rock your Glock match with my son for his birthday.
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Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
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Offline Rich B

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 09:57:42 PM »
Work up a load, you'll probably be between 23 and 25.5 grains of H335.  I'm around 23.8-24.2, IIRC.  I was running hotter, but it wasn't giving me better results.  I don't want to go too low, since I want enough gas to cycle the gun.

Those Match Kings might work better with Varget, RL15, or 4064.

For 55gr FMJBTs, pick up some Hornadys.  They're reputed to be the best and I've always had good results with them.  Your experience with the Armscor stuff reflects what I've heard elsewhere.
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Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 10:01:02 PM »
I just received notice that my back-order from Powder Valley has shipped. So I will be GTG with powder and primers for some time.

Anyone have any thoughts about using flat based bullets vs boat tailed?  I see many flat based available when lookin for the other. I they harder to load or just different?
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Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
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Offline Rich B

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 09:34:43 AM »
Boat tails are slightly easier to load since they slip into the case mouth a little more easily.  

I *think* they're more accurate too.  IIRC, most match bullets have boat tails.


BTW, when did you place that order with Powder Valley?  I have an order from April I'm waiting on...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 09:35:32 AM by Rich B »
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Offline Randy

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2009, 12:17:44 PM »
Boat Tails also have a better coefficient of drag thud are faster.
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Offline SBarry

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2009, 12:24:35 PM »
The back of the bullet affects accuracy. If something happens to the flat back bullet while loading, it could cause the bullet to tumble.

A lot of years ago, I believe it was a European country, tried to make thier 556 bullets tumble to cause more damage when hitting a human torso. They basically ground a uneven  point on the tip of the bullet, which did nothing to make it tumble. I saw some of these at Grand Island gun show a year ago. A fellow NFOA member had them. I signed him up, don't think he participates on the forum though.  
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 11:14:35 AM by LitlRat »
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Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2009, 05:37:38 PM »
Quote from: Rich B on July 24, 2009, 09:34:43 AM
Boat tails are slightly easier to load since they slip into the case mouth a little more easily. 

I *think* they're more accurate too.  IIRC, most match bullets have boat tails.


BTW, when did you place that order with Powder Valley?  I have an order from April I'm waiting on...

April 17...ordered H335 and CCI SR #400
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Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2009, 05:39:09 PM »
I was just seeing a lot of flat based varmint bullets that were available, while all the FMJBT are sold out.
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Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline JimP

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2009, 10:37:05 PM »
Quote from: LitlRat on July 24, 2009, 12:24:35 PM
The back of the bullet affects accuracy. If something happens to the flat back bullet while loading, it could cause the bullet to tumble.

A lot of years ago, I believe it was a European country, tried to make thier 556 bullets tumble to cause more damage when hitting a human torso. They basically ground a uneven  point on the tip of the bullet, which did nothing to amke it tumble. I saw some of these at Grand isalnd gun show a year ago. A fellow NFOA member had them. I signed him up, don't think he participates on the forum though.  

go read this:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot37.htm


....... ya learn sump'n ehvree day........
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 10:38:17 PM by JimP »
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Offline SBarry

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2009, 11:19:02 AM »
Neat article Dan, however those are not the same as what I saw. Those are extreme and would not function in an M16 with that type of bullet design. It is easy to see why those would tumble, and not function in an autoloading rifle.

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Offline JimP

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2009, 03:28:37 PM »
.... glad you liked it...... but my name is Jim......
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Offline SBarry

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2009, 03:37:51 PM »
Sorry Jim, I would have known that if I was paying better attention.
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Offline JimP

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 10:34:39 AM »
I need to figure out how to make an avatar..... I managed it over at ccwne, but it it took more time than I have.......

edit...... that didn't take long at all.......
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 10:44:30 AM by JimP »
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Offline Dan W

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Re: I am finally handloading .223
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2009, 08:22:45 PM »
Today I test fired 50 rounds of H335 handloads at 23.5 and 23.7gr. A fellow shooter at the Ike's range let me fire a round over his chronograph and the result was 2921fps for the 23.7gr load. Accuracy was about 2 MOA, with the lighter load slightly better, and I still have my doubts about the Armscor 62gr bullets. No signs of excessive pressure and no blown primers.

These bullets are varying +/- 1 grain in weight and all weigh more than 62gr (average weight is 62.5gr) and they go as high as 63. I am also having major issues with inconsistent COL, varying as much as .015" (2.245"-2.260"). Target COL is 2.250"
I have decided to load the rest of the Armscor 62gr for plinking only @23.5gr H335, as I have the most of that powder.

I also fired 20 rounds loaded with Ramshot TAC -24gr under the 62gr bullets. Functionally they worked fine, but  I had about the same issues with accuracy.  

Today I ordered some Hornady VMAX 55gr(flat based) and some Spire Point 55gr. I will see if I can get a better grouping from a quality bullet

Now I am wishing I had a chronograph...another $100...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 08:26:43 PM by Dan W »
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