Social Greeting

[ProtoPatriot]

Ok so I follow the Law which you call stupid, and you claim the right to carry concealed where ever and when ever you like. I like my chances when encountering Law Enforcement, over your Don Quixote approach. Good luck telling a LEO or a Judge that the SCOTUS has no authority. Keep tilting windmills...
Greg58

First off, not a claim, it's a fact. Now of course you reign over your property as I reign mine, so you set the rules on your property as I set the rules on mine. But public areas, we own them together and we both must be able exercise our rights, but none of that requires regulation in fact regulation henders that and infringes on the rights of one for the sake of the other. Remember: your rights end ONLY where another's begins.

Second, they only have as much power as we have granted and power they should never have had in the first place.

Third, the laws are not just stupid, they are useless, wrong and do only damage, they do nothing good.

Man, come on. Now you are simply arguing for the sake of argument. Your points are perfectly valid in a utopian society...but the key word is society. Everyone is born with the same rights. They will have these rights unless they do something to lose them. You live in a society and for peace to prevail, this society makes laws. You break laws, you lose your rights.

This didn't have to get to this point. Screw the legal side of the discussion for the moment. Alcohol can and will effect judgment. If you cannot agree with this statement, you are delusional. Having a firearm in the hands of an individual with impaired judgment can lead to a very bad conclusion (notice I said "can").

Why the hell are we even arguing this?

There is no such thing as a "utopia" and we are a society made up of individuals, not groups... which has obviously been forgotten in this country. Collectivism is a horrible thing (not just a legal standpoint, but a human nature and physiological standpoint as well).

Yes, as already recognized multiple times, alcohol can impact judgement and motor skills...but it does not impact the same across everyone, some require more and some less...but that is for the individual to decide. And yes, sometimes it ends badly...but thus are the risks of life, especially if you want to live a free life.

Laws do NOT provide safety nor peace. For every law passed you give up a bit of your freedom/liberty...those that give up any amount of freedom/liberty for any amount of security/safety, deserves and will have neither.

You cannot regulate yourself into prosperity. It is deregulation that creates the greatest prosperity (as can be seen throughout history) and the individual is the only one qualified to make decisions in their lives. Self-regulation is the only way freedom can be preserved and that can only be done through voluntary interactions, not forced through regulation.

If regulation/laws created prosperity/peace...then socialism would actually work and we would already have it...but as history, recent history at that, has shown the opposite is true and always will be true. It is a liberal fantasy that thinks regulation does anything but oppression.

It is better to have freedom and danger, than peace and slavery. Freedom is inherently dangerous and every bit of it is worth it.

Peace and Freedom cannot coexist outside the individual level...that would be a utopia if it did...that would be a liberal fantasy.

I agree I think we've gotten derailed too many times on an otherwise well intentioned fun post! I think there is plenty of philosophical debate that could rage on forever, but I think here the only debate that should still be raging would be Memphis style or Kansas City Style... to peel the membrane on ribs or not to peel the membrane. I think that if we organized something then we should just scrap this one and start over.

Yes, I grow weary of this....so many people didn't die and I didn't break my back so people here at home can give away freedoms (not just their own but others as well, something they have no right to do) just because they want petty false sense of "safety" or some false sense of "prosperity".

http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,9738.msg68499.html#msg68499

[justsomeguy]

It is better to have freedom and danger, than peace and slavery. Freedom is inherently dangerous and every bit of it is worth it.

This X 1000!

Now pass me some ribs and a beer and don't ask me what I've got in my pants.

[GreyGeek]

And so far it seems that few have be able to comprehend what I am saying,

Some teachers think their job is to cover their subject matter.  Better teachers believe their job is to uncover their subject matter.   In my own experience  as a teacher at the HS and college level, the failure of a student to understand lies entirely with the teacher.   Typically, fewer than 3% of folks lack the ability to understand more than ordinary things.   When kids were having difficulty understanding the fault was in my ability or methods to  teach them.  I kept polishing until I got the lesson across.

Making one's self clear and easier to understand is a difficult thing to do at times.

[ProtoPatriot]

Some teachers think their job is to cover their subject matter.  Better teachers believe their job is to uncover their subject matter.   In my own experience  as a teacher at the HS and college level, the failure of a student to understand lies entirely with the teacher.   Typically, fewer than 3% of folks lack the ability to understand more than ordinary things.   When kids were having difficulty understanding the fault was in my ability or methods to  teach them.  I kept polishing until I got the lesson across.

Making one's self clear and easier to understand is a difficult thing to do at times.

Very true, though explaining things like this in a forum, let alone text (especially on the fly) is practically impossible.... without tons of time and pages upon pages.

[AWick]

I, too, find that communicating philosophies and explaining different ideologies is very difficult in the forum format. I do want to say, Proto, that I appreciate your service very much and I also admire your passion. It is great to have convictions, especially the convictions that are very American and freedom-centric. We may disagree on the degree in which humans are individualistic or social til we're blue in the face. I think that both of us know that a pure individualistic society and a pure socialist society simply can't exist but to what degree society bases its norms and morals and values and how they are projected through laws or lawlessness will always vary. I think the thing that caught people off guard here was the level of philosophy that you were interjecting into very simple discussions. I'm not going to tell you to change who you are but one of the biggest things that we focus with our pro-gun lobbying is picking your battles and timing. That is everything. Just like the anti-gunners do to us, they pick their small battles and are very satisfied with even the slightest encroachment of control because they know it will lead to another small baby step. That's where the timing and picking battles comes in. This is a war over rights and to say that everything is unconstitutional and should be thrown out will normally get you laughed out of a debate because they can't paint you as a radical zealot that want kids to be able to walk into Walmart and buy a nuclear bomb. They want to assassinate your character and you hand them the button on a silver platter when you lay into the extreme right off the bat.

Cheers, and here's to gun control being a steady hand!

[ProtoPatriot]

I, too, find that communicating philosophies and explaining different ideologies is very difficult in the forum format. I do want to say, Proto, that I appreciate your service very much and I also admire your passion. It is great to have convictions, especially the convictions that are very American and freedom-centric. We may disagree on the degree in which humans are individualistic or social til we're blue in the face. I think that both of us know that a pure individualistic society and a pure socialist society simply can't exist but to what degree society bases its norms and morals and values and how they are projected through laws or lawlessness will always vary. I think the thing that caught people off guard here was the level of philosophy that you were interjecting into very simple discussions. I'm not going to tell you to change who you are but one of the biggest things that we focus with our pro-gun lobbying is picking your battles and timing. That is everything. Just like the anti-gunners do to us, they pick their small battles and are very satisfied with even the slightest encroachment of control because they know it will lead to another small baby step. That's where the timing and picking battles comes in. This is a war over rights and to say that everything is unconstitutional and should be thrown out will normally get you laughed out of a debate because they can't paint you as a radical zealot that want kids to be able to walk into Walmart and buy a nuclear bomb. They want to assassinate your character and you hand them the button on a silver platter when you lay into the extreme right off the bat.

Cheers, and here's to gun control being a steady hand!

Here's the problem with that...they have already labeled us as those zealots...they have already deemed us to be "terrorists" and such...which is fine by me, they did the same to all the founders and soldiers during that civil war we call the War of Independence (or more inaccurately known as the American Revolution). Look at the schools: they are teaching things like the 2A are mere privileges, to trust government, to obey without question, that our founders were in the wrong, etc...that is how they won: media, schools, economics, government.

As I said before, we passed the brink of no return already. Anymore I say let it come... lets take the fall head on knowingly... people need a reminder of what it's like to live under an oligarchy, why people are willing to die and kill for to be free, why freedom should never be given up in any amount for any reason, why government and society should never be trusted... and sadly they must experience it to gain this reminder.

Nothing ever truly changes: we face the exact same issues and problems the founders and so many others did, fought and died over...they are just coming with a different cover.

Even those that claim to be all about freedom and rights have lost touch, but then turn around and support things that take them and restrict them... grown afraid to lose their comforts and safety nets (i.e. welfare, social security, unemployment, etc. are things that should never be allowed, they are nation destroyers and only creates dependence on government, something that should NEVER have any dependence attached to it)... and think you can fix something that is broken from the inside.

Supporting this kind of establishment and oppression has been a long standing problem... in the past they were called them "loyalists" today we call them the same or "statist".

I'm sorry, but the option of peaceful revolution is no longer available.

[ProtoPatriot]

JUST FOR THE RECORD


NEVER once did I say I was "okay" or "wanted" people to be driving or handling firearms while drunk/inebriated, I even said I opposed drunkenness at all... AND ESPECIALLY NOT WHEN IN ACTUAL PROCESS OF UTILIZING A VEHICLE OR FIREARM. But it was a nice try of people to accuse, twist and manipulate as such just like people do with firearms.

But it is within the individual's right to do so and that trumps.

As I said several times: it DOES NOT MATTER what we want, what we trust, or what we fear when it comes to another person's rights.

When I said I will have a beer with dinner whether at home or restaurant (on a very rare occasion, I usually stick to water or lemonade), I literally meant 1 beer (12 ounces) and it takes me about 2 hours to finish it (if I even finish it). Not enough alcohol consumption for it to build up in a short enough time plus food (I never drink on an empty stomach, which translates to severely diluted alcohol).On top of all this, I also drink a glass of water with it.

I have taken a lot of time and effort to find out what is needed for alcohol to pass through without issue with the goal of finding a way to have a drink and mix (not meaning mix at the same time, if that is what people were thinking) with anything and everything safely and responsibly. But this only applies to me as a person's size, weight, body fat, liver functionality, tolerances, etc. must be taken into account and they must find their own level.

But are people really supporting the taking of someone's right/ability to defend themselves away just because they had a drink?