NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Newsworthy => Topic started by: abbafandr on January 09, 2013, 07:17:02 PM
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I read this awhile back on dailyreckoning.com. What do we think?
“When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands,” is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.
And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”
This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.
Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.
If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.
The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.
And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don’t seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.
Also ignored (as if it didn’t even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.
According to Public Intelligence:
“…for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of ‘homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.’ Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being ‘necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities’ under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.”
And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.
And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day — for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.
That is your choice… for the moment.
Regards,
Jim Karger
for The Daily Reckoning
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To answer the original question: No. I have long since come to terms with my morality, and I know some things eat at a man worse than dying. That being said, for the vast majority of "saber-rattlers" he is correct, most of the other information is mere fear mongering.
I found this to be a good read on this subject:
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/ (http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/)
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We'll surely wind up dead if the knock on the door comes and we start slinging lead. If people organize and stand shoulder to shoulder, it'll be a completely different story. Never forget that the gun confiscating criminals would be a drop in the bucket when compared to the armed citizenry. Just like the US military, they’d be in real trouble in a drawn out situation. There simply aren’t enough government agents…yet.
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To answer the original question: No. I have long since come to terms with my morality, and I know some things eat at a man worse than dying. That being said, for the vast majority of "saber-rattlers" he is correct, most of the other information is mere fear mongering.
I found this to be a good read on this subject:
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/ (http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/)
Good read...kind of removes a little bit of my tinfoil hat
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They seem to not realize, most of the police and military will join our side and bring their experience tanks attack helicopters and machine gins with them. I have read where several police department feel that if a mass gun confiscation is ordered they will loose at lease 50 percent of their force The military would expect even higher numbers defecting! Several retired Generals have recently said that the military would completely disobey any order to confiscate civilian arms.
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They seem to not realize, most of the police and military will join our side and bring their experience tanks attack helicopters and machine gins with them. I have read where several police department feel that if a mass gun confiscation is ordered they will loose at lease 50 percent of their force The military would expect even higher numbers defecting! Several retired Generals have recently said that the military would completely disobey any order to confiscate civilian arms.
I truly want to believe this. I also hope it never comes to this.
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Several retired Generals have recently said that the military would completely disobey any order to confiscate civilian arms.
Except for this EDITED:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/retired-general-calls-serious-gun-control-measures-article-1.1235595 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/retired-general-calls-serious-gun-control-measures-article-1.1235595)
Same EDITED who ran Afghanistan into the ground, failed to stem the come back of the taliban, agreed to Karzai's 12 (google it) and seemed to not even the slightest understanding of Counter-Insurgency, Asymmetric Warfare, or even conventional warfare.
Hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of officers are no longer leaders, they are politicians and paper pushers. Anytime an officer is actually put in charge of anything, they screw it up.
Andy, read the article I linked to above. I personally know several cool aid drinkers and worse: people who oppose civilian firearms ownership, within the military and LE sectors. I'd say Paul's assessment is fairly accurate. I would say about 50/50 as far as percentages.
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My guns can't be confiscated. They all fell in the Missouri river when I was transporting them in a canoe. Dang...do I feel stupid.
Fly
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I have my right to keep and bear arms. Until there's a Constitutional amendment past stating otherwise, I shall remain armed.
If I am at home, and they knock on my door to STEAL my property, they will not be allowed inside. If they forcibly enter the premises with the intention of taking my means of defending myself, I consider this a life threatening situation and *WILL* defend myself.... just as if someone else had broken into my house and went for the gun safe.
I have all due respect for LEO, and the military (being a military brat, but not having served myself)... but respect gets you a "sir", not a "surrender".
Just my 2 cents.
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We'll surely wind up dead if the knock on the door comes and we start slinging lead. If people organize and stand shoulder to shoulder, it'll be a completely different story. Never forget that the gun confiscating criminals would be a drop in the bucket when compared to the armed citizenry. Just like the US military, they’d be in real trouble in a drawn out situation. There simply aren’t enough government agents…yet.
^^^ This is 100% correct IMO.
One person standing their ground is just a gun nut, a "lone wolf", and doesn't stand a chance. However a group, a community, a city, a nation, will not be a drop in the bucket and cannot be ignored. Remember the phrase "United We Stand, Divided We Fall"?
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I read this awhile back on dailyreckoning.com. What do we think?
I think it is apparent that this writer doesn't know much about asymmetric warfare.
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My guns can't be confiscated. They all fell in the Missouri river when I was transporting them in a canoe. Dang...do I feel stupid.
Fly
That's a damn shame fly! So sorry to hear that yours are hanging down there with mine from my boating accident. :(
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The writer also doesn't seem to understand that a lot of those same military personal
from time to time leave or retire from the military and they then become civilians once again .......
Oh and They also buy gun & ammo for hunting or defence.........
(I'm just saying)
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We'll surely wind up dead if the knock on the door comes and we start slinging lead. If people organize and stand shoulder to shoulder, it'll be a completely different story. Never forget that the gun confiscating criminals would be a drop in the bucket when compared to the armed citizenry. Just like the US military, they’d be in real trouble in a drawn out situation. There simply aren’t enough government agents…yet.
I agree completely :-)
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According to Gallup, 47% of Americans own guns. That equates to about 118,000 people in Lincoln alone. If just 1% of those people in Lincoln decide to band together and fight for their rights that's still almost 1,200 people. 1,200 determined patriots could make quite a stand, enough that no one in local or Federal government would risk the PR nightmare.
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According to Gallup, 47% of Americans own guns. That equates to about 118,000 people in Lincoln alone. If just 1% of those people in Lincoln decide to band together and fight for their rights that's still almost 1,200 people. 1,200 determined patriots could make quite a stand, enough that no one in local or Federal government would risk the PR nightmare.
Even the low end of that number, say half, would create enough of a nightmare that it would take serious action to quell. 600 Armed and pissed off Americans will be in just one city, in just one state, in just a single region of our country. What type of manpower would be needed to quell a COUNTRY of pissed off Americans willing to defend their rights? WHO would stand against such a, wait for it... armed citizen group???
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GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!
I just don't see what is so hard to understand.
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Even the low end of that number, say half, would create enough of a nightmare that it would take serious action to quell. 600 Armed and pissed off Americans will be in just one city, in just one state, in just a single region of our country. What type of manpower would be needed to quell a COUNTRY of pissed off Americans willing to defend their rights? WHO would stand against such a, wait for it... armed citizen group???
How big is OPD, 800 officers? Add on top of your statement that a boat load of the government responders will say "I didn't sign up for this" and disband.
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I pray that we don't end up on some server somewhere on a list of potential instigators.
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I pray that we don't end up on some server somewhere on a list of potential instigators.
To late for that bud. :tinfoil: But, the reality is, that I am in no way condoning the use of force against our paid protectors. When it comes to a BG busting down my door demanding what is rightfully and legally mine or intending to do harm to me and mine, I will respond with precise and deadly force, no matter their sex, color, or clothing.
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I pray that we don't end up on some server somewhere on a list of potential instigators.
I want them to know that there are literally millions of people willing to use force to resist their tyranny.
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... from my cold dead hands
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It worked for King Leonidas
"Molon Labe"
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brother in arms to the finish!!!
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According to Gallup, 47% of Americans own guns. That equates to about 118,000 people in Lincoln alone. If just 1% of those people in Lincoln decide to band together and fight for their rights that's still almost 1,200 people. 1,200 determined patriots could make quite a stand, enough that no one in local or Federal government would risk the PR nightmare.
Pareto's law of the 20/80, 20% of the gun owners probably own 80% of the guns. By the same token 20% of the owners will put up 80% of the resistance if needed. I roughly figure 29 million gun owners ( my estimate) would balk or put up resistance.
I guessed a populace of 315 million for my crude back of envelope figures
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And after reading this forum I would say at least 50% of those guns are at the bottom of some lake or river. ;D
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If 50 cops show up to work on Monday, and only 25 survive until Tuesday, how many will come to work on Wednesday?
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Pareto's law of the 20/80, 20% of the gun owners probably own 80% of the guns. By the same token 20% of the owners will put up 80% of the resistance if needed. I roughly figure 29 million gun owners ( my estimate) would balk or put up resistance.
I guessed a populace of 315 million for my crude back of envelope figures
Heck, just 1 million would be a disaster for the gun banners.
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And after reading this forum I would say at least 50% of those guns are at the bottom of some lake or river. ;D
I was able to save mine from a watery grave....
But I sold them to the guy that used to live 2 houses over.
I forget his name.
I'm sure had it on a piece of paper here somewhere......
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According to Gallup, 47% of Americans own guns. That equates to about 118,000 people in Lincoln alone. If just 1% of those people in Lincoln decide to band together and fight for their rights that's still almost 1,200 people. 1,200 determined patriots could make quite a stand, enough that no one in local or Federal government would risk the PR nightmare.
Consider also that most of the men and a large number of women in that group would have had combat training and/or experience in one or more of the wars we've been fighting in since Gulf I, and they would know weapons and tactics.
Someone mentioned guns falling off of boats in the river .... even now I have no doubt that weapons and ammo sealed in weather proof containers have been concealed at various locations around the region. And, if push comes to shove, a lot of police and active military would act for the Constitution and not against it. I think Obama believes that as well, which is why in a campaign speech in Colorado Springs in July of 2008 he called for a 250,000 "civilian defense force" that would be "just as well equipped and just as well trained as the US military". You have to ask why that would be necessary? We already have a National Guard, a professional army, and over 700,000 police active police officers around the country. I think one comparison comes to mind -- the Chinese Red Guard, a group of Marxists armed to specifically suppress any who disagree with administration policy. His "civilian defense force" would be recruited from those with a Socialist view of government. People read "Mein Kampf" and thought that Hitler wasn't serious. He was. Obama has not concealed his disregard for the 2nd Amendment and concealed carry:
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/10/30/obama-audio-i-want-to-ban-concealed-weapons-permits/ (http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/10/30/obama-audio-i-want-to-ban-concealed-weapons-permits/)
and he takes a politician's course in discussing gun bans. He's for it in Liberal settings and against it in Conservative settings. But regardless of what he says, it is what he does that shows he is a gun banner. Biden and Reid are exactly the same way:
Biden and his Beretta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyLeOm6yGc#)
Sen. Harry Reid in 2010: "I Carried a Gun Every Place I Went... I Know What Self-Defense Is" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTcY8OcT_0E#ws)
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Well I took all mine with me when I went hunting in North Carolina this last fall. My Brother in laws place backs up to a federal forest, which if you know the coastal area's you know how every little wet swampy spot is a "Forest." Well while I was dragging my dear out with his golf cart I flipped it and all my guns are now at the bottom of a swampy grave in the middle of a Federal Forest in NC.
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Biden can stick his shotgun in his backside.
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http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/ (http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/)