Author Topic: Watch This Story: Gunman kills 1, wounds 9 at Empire State Building (Read 4534 times)

SemperFiGuy · « **on:** August 24, 2012, 05:40:00 PM »

It's slowly coming out that maybe most of the wounded shooter victims were innocent bystanders shot by.............

The New York City Police.

Might have to take away all guns from New York's Finest.

sfg

wallace11bravo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2012, 05:47:24 PM »

"One law enforcement official said that based on the preliminary investigation, it appears that most or all of the bystanders were struck by one of the 16 police bullets – or fragments or ricochets from those rounds – that were fired by the two officers who confronted Mr. Johnson."

Anti-gun advocates are already spinning this as a reason to take away our right to defend themselves.

By merit of their own arguments, this is also a good reason to disarm law enforcement:

-Armed citizens had an error rate of 2%, meaning that 1 of every 50 rounds that struck a person, the wounded individual was innocent

-Police officers, during the same time period, had an error rate of 11%, meaning that 1 of every 10 rounds that struck a person, the wounded individual was innocent.

*Clayton E. Cramer and David Burnet “Tough Targets: When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens” Cato Institute. February 2, 2012.

lneuke · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2012, 06:22:50 PM »

"One witness told police that the gunman fired at officers, but authorities say ballistics evidence so far doesn't support that. They say Johnson's .45-caliber weapon held seven rounds. He fired five times at Ercolino, killing him. One round was still in the gun, and one was ejected when officers secured it.

The nine bystanders hit by gunfire when police took down Johnson are expected to survive. They suffered graze wounds or other minor injuries.

The wounded include two women and seven men sent to two area hospitals whom Bloomberg earlier said may have been accidentally shot by cops, who fired off 14 rounds."

UPCrawfish · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2012, 08:56:21 PM »

Simply amazing...............

bkoenig · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2012, 09:29:21 PM »

Piers Morgan was on the TV at the gym tonight. I can't stand that guy but since this is a family friendly forum I won't say what I really think about him....

Anyway, of course he tried to use this to push for more gun control. Never mind that guns are all but illegal in New York. He got the murder victim's brother on the phone and it backfired - the brother said he supports the legal carrying of firearms. Then he brought on Rudy Giuliani, who came right out and said that gun control wouldn't have stopped it.

It amazes me how sleazebags like him won't even wait until the body is cold.

wallace11bravo · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2012, 09:43:25 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/civilians-hurt-nyc-gunfire-highlight-dangers-233856647.html

?"If bullets fired by police or fragments struck civilians, then the officers were also lucky to be alive, since bullets could have boomeranged in their direction..."

Idiot.

cckyle · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2012, 01:08:41 AM »

Doesn't New York have pretty strict gun control laws???

HuskerXDM · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2012, 09:19:46 AM »

Quote from: cckyle on August 25, 2012, 01:08:41 AM

Doesn't New York have pretty strict gun control laws???

Yes, only the police, Bloomberg's bodyguards, and criminals can have guns in New York.

Lorimor · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2012, 09:24:09 AM »

Celebrities and other politically well connected types seem to get permits when they want.

Guns aren't for the "little people."

DaveB · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2012, 09:47:53 AM »

But the little people of NYC are content to be slaughtered at will. And when slaughtered by the police, they will continue to blame the law abiding gun owners of the other 49 states. This I do not understand.

HuskerXDM · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2012, 11:23:42 AM »

Did you see in the article that one of the injured pedestrians, when asked about getting injured by the police, shrugged it off and basically said "stuff happens"?? If that had been a CCW holder, the interview would have taken place with his lawyer.

sjwsti · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2012, 11:27:56 AM »

Video of the shooting.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-video-police-shoot-empire-state-suspect-20120824,0,7302632.story

- Shawn

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2012, 03:31:55 PM »

Two officers fired a total of 16 rounds (9 and 7) it appears they may have only hit him 3 times. Normally I wouldn't question tactics like this, but in a crowed area like that, maybe more focus on shot placement than on spray and pray would be in order.

David Hineline · « **Reply #13 on:** August 26, 2012, 01:42:59 AM »

Have you ever shot a Glock with a New York trigger?

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #14 on:** August 26, 2012, 02:23:25 PM »

No. But I do shoot revolvers in DA a fair amount. I'm not sure how that would compare.

If an obtrusively heavy pull is hurting accuracy that much, maybe they need to focus on software and trigger discipline rather than the bandaid of a heavy trigger.

NE Bull · « **Reply #15 on:** August 27, 2012, 05:23:10 PM »

(Disclaimer; I for one appreciate the dangerous work (good) Law Enforcement Officers do. But I do not appreciate the "only ones" attitude of some officers and the brass.)
That being said;

http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4527526
East Baton Rouge Sheriff's spokesman Greg Phares says Officer Brian Harrision was escorting a funeral procession Friday when he pulled Temple over and wrote him a ticket for breaking into the procession. According to Phares, that's when Temple attacked Harrison. Police say Perry Stevens was walking outside of the Auto Zone on Greenwell Springs Road when he heard Harrison yelling for help. Harrison was reportedly on his back with Temple on top of him. That's when Stevens went to his car and grabbed his .45 caliber pistol.

According to Col. Greg Phares, "[Mr. Stevens] orders Mr. Temple to stop and get off the officer. The verbal commands are ignored and Mr. Stevens fires four shots, all of which struck Mr. Temple."

Perry Stevens fired four shots into Temple's torso. Officer Harrison had already fired one shot into Temple's abdomen. With Temple still struggling with the officer, Perry continued to advance toward the scuffle.

"He again orders Mr. Temple to stop what he was doing and get off the officer. Those commands are ignored and he fires a fifth shot and that hits his head. The incident is over with, and as you know, Mr. Temple is dead."

sjwsti · « **Reply #16 on:** August 27, 2012, 05:49:30 PM »

Great article and nice job Mr Stevens. He certainly saved that Officers life. I'm not sure how this compares to what happened in NY though, Mr Stevens never had a gun pointed at him. Mr Temple was preoccupied, unarmed and stationary, it wont get much easier than that.

Obviously the NYPD Officers could have done better. But for every "civilian doing better than the NYPD" story posted I can post one were a civilian didn't do so good (several locally). So what? Cops and civilians aren't very different, some take this stuff seriously some dont.

The better question is how could this guy possibly continue to fight after being shot 4 times with a .45!!?? Apparently he never saw the ballistic gelatin tests

- Shawn

NE Bull · « **Reply #17 on:** August 27, 2012, 06:15:10 PM »

Quote from: sjwsti on August 27, 2012, 05:49:30 PM

Great article and nice job Mr Stevens. He certainly saved that Officers life. I'm not sure how this compares to what happened in NY though, Mr Stevens never had a gun pointed at him. Mr Temple was preoccupied, unarmed and stationary, it wont get much easier than that.

- Shawn

Yeah, that thought come to mind once I posted. It was more of a 'controlled' environment.
Just struck me as a good story to 'stir the pot' with.

lneuke · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2012, 07:55:15 PM »

Quote from: sjwsti on August 27, 2012, 05:49:30 PM

The better question is how could this guy possibly continue to fight after being shot 4 times with a .45!!?? Apparently he never saw the ballistic gelatin tests

- Shawn

So much for stopping power

that is ridiculous

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2012, 09:03:10 PM »

One Tough Perp

First shot from the LEO was probably a .40S&W.

Then four shots from the .45ACP.

Five shots, center mass, more or less. If the Perp had a handgun, he coulda gotten off a few ugly rounds himself in the meantime.

Lends some support to the Central Nervous System Shot Placement argument.

sfg