Did you address your concerns with the instructor? Personally, that would be my first line of approach. The instructor, if made aware of your concerns, might offer you a bit of a refund or even some additional training.
I think there's a fairly wide variation in classes as you've seen from those who've already responded. As I recall, my class started around 8:00 a.m. and went until about 2:00 p.m. As I recall, there were about 15-20 students of all experience levels. Having taught Hunter Safety classes for a while, I can attest that it's difficult to teach a class that fits the needs of everyone in the room.
As an instructor myself who is NOT in it for the money...my two cents. This "instructor" will hang himself at some point if his course is as poor as it sounds. His post course paperwork must include the number of hours in class and hours and the range. What you've stated will likely raise a red flag with NSP and he'll have his class audited. From personal experience I can't see how he could have covered the material AND ran 25 folks through the range 5 at a time per the regs in the time frame you listed.
I feel that the NFOA as an orgainization should encourage safe CCW training that follows the State-mandated ciriculum. This experience described does not seem to qualify as such. While I feel that there should be NO PERMITS REQUIRED to carry openly or concealed, since we have a law that requires training and a permit, that's what needs to be followed at this time, BY LAW.
Stutz- I would encourage you to report you and your wife's experience to the State Patrol. If the instructor is making short-cuts in his training as you've described, he is doing a dis-service to his students and all those who come in contact with them.
Also just my opinion, but I beleive this so-called "instructor" should be named here in public to prevent him from taking advantage of any other unknowing potential customers. I have a pretty good idea who it is, but will wait on making a guess.
Before we start pulling out the pitchforks and torches ... let's think for a moment about the absence of details and first-hand information.
[snip]
I do believe it would be entirely appropriate for the OP and his wife to go directly to the instructor and voice their concerns/complaints. If those concerns/complaints are not addressed, then I think it would be appropriate to report the instructor's behavior to the State Police.
I don't envy the guys that teach these classes. This class ranged from a couple girls that started shooting a pistol 1 week ago up to guys that are 50 yrs old and have been shooting for a lifetime. I wasn't there for much of it, basically just the last 30 minutes while they ran through the targets. There was no berm, no safe area, and half the people didn't have holsters for their weapons.
When they first scheduled this class the guy had 50 signed up and only reduced it to 25 after he got busted at a class a couple weeks ago for being way over his limit. I'm not as concerned about anyone being taught all the ins and outs of CCW, I know it can't be done in one class. My concern is with this being a pencil-whipped money generator. I think it reflects poorly on all of us.
Gary we look forward to your report...just make certain you at least get a badge if your disappointed
I can assure you this wasn't my class....... We take about a 9 hour day (3 of which are spent on the range). There is no possible way to run 25 people through the class properly and meet the required objectives in 5 hours..... This Instructor makes us all look bad and NSP needs to know about this...........
There was another Instructor recently who was doing an incredible half ass job on the range, allowing unsafe, uncontrolled gun handling all over the place, not following any bit of his submitted plan and did not even know the state required range qualification...... It wasn't real humorous for him when NSP showed up to audit his class.
I was at Scheel's Omaha tonight. I suppose I learned a thing or two but it was mostly common sense stuff. Was the class good or bad? I don't know. I have been to a total of one, and the reason I went is so I could get my permit. If I get a permit, then the class has served it's purpose. The only disappointment is that this class didn't add on the Utah kicker, which I wasn't aware of when I signed up.
Hapkido has it right. If your expectation is to learn how to properly handle a firearm, then CCW is not the right forum. You should already know that before you show up. Furthermore, if your expectation is to learn the "legality" of conceal carry, then I guess you can learn a little bit, but what I got out of it is that there is so much grey area that legality is never black and white. 6 hours of "what-if" scenarios would not have made it any clearer.
At the end of the day, I'm not getting my panties in a bunch over some noob getting a CCW permit that doesn't deserve one. This class is the means to the end, which is that slip of paper the state patrol gives to me.
My son and I took CHP training a couple of years ago at Great Plains Rifle LLC. near Bruno NE, near Abie NE. In other words, near nothing but farmland. The rural atmosphere contributed to a relaxing day.Same place we went, was an awesome job, friendly, and knew what they were talking about.
The class was well prepared, covered what the Statute requires, the class size was 12 people max. the setting was in a small gun store where you could buy ammo if you didn't bring enough, and the shooting portion was right out the back of the store to a small range.
The 2 instructors are husband and wife and are retired NSP, tuition included pizza lunch, the training was not hurried, and I really felt the shooting portion was handled safely.
Call this a shameless plug, but we were very satisfied.
Greg58
http://greatplainsllc.com/ccwtraining.aspx (http://greatplainsllc.com/ccwtraining.aspx)
I can assure you this wasn't my class....... We take about a 9 hour day (3 of which are spent on the range). There is no possible way to run 25 people through the class properly and meet the required objectives in 5 hours..... This Instructor makes us all look bad and NSP needs to know about this...........I took my class with you about five years ago. I remember it lasting all day. This is what struck me.
There was another Instructor recently who was doing an incredible half ass job on the range, allowing unsafe, uncontrolled gun handling all over the place, not following any bit of his submitted plan and did not even know the state required range qualification...... It wasn't real humorous for him when NSP showed up to audit his class.
Is there a time requirement for these classes?
the only point he seemed to be unaware of was the State requirement of 45 days for approving or denying a CCW permit. he quoted that times were running about 68 days to process them.
I informed him about the requirement or 45 day under State law but did say that some times the people working in the State patrol offices may be unaware of this requirement under state law.
I was actually very pleasantly supprised by the level of knowledge I've gained here in the forum in regards to Nebraska state CCW laws, regulations and requirement's associated with it.
The CHP class is NOT a beginners class. The students should have that down before even taking the CHP course.
There's been talk that this instructor had a ND in his class last sunday. He was demonstrating all the different methods of carry and pulled a .22 out of his pocket and shot a hole in the roll up door in the shop he was in.
This was in Geneva. I'm waiting on a guy that was "actually" there to call me back.
Just the fact that he damaged someone else's property should require a report within 10 days anyway.
What am I supposed to do if my concealed weapon injures someone or damages property?
You must report any injury to a person or damage to property resulting from the discharge of a concealed handgun you carry to the Nebraska State Patrol within ten (10) days of the incident. Failure to file the report is a criminal offense. The form for making such a report will be available on the Nebraska State Patrol website at and can be downloaded for your use in complying with this requirement.
Maybe ol' Bruce should have just taken one of these out of his pocket(like the ones he sells on his website and at gun shows) and stuck it right over the hole in that freshly ventilated door. I wonder how good they are at stopping bleeding...
(http://www.areagency.com/uploads/4/8/8/5/4885312/7293256.jpg)
OK, who is Sgt. Loveless and where is his contact info?
OK, who is Sgt. Loveless and where is his contact info?
Has the NFOA considered some kind of program to audit classes to give them a "NFOA Stamp of Approval"? Those that get a "normal" stamp adequately meet the minimum requirements while those with a "gold" stamp exceed the minimum requirements. I'm late to the conversation, so I don't know if this has been discussed already.
Though my ops aren't very black, I have been known to operate somewhat covertly. Therefore, I am nominating myself as an independent CCW class auditor. This won't be an inexpensive undertaking however. :( It will take massive amounts of money for me to live in the style I have been accustomed to. And don't forget, ammo is increasingly expensive. As anyone can tell you, I'm a big fan of the spray and pray technique. I tend to shoot a lot. It makes me feel good.
Yes, I am willing to make the sacrifice and provide this much needed and vital service.
Please send your very large and extremely generous donations early and often to the Lorimor Fan Club.
http://www.areagency.com/ (http://www.areagency.com/)
Gary - the requirements for teaching the NSP class are specific. This guy teaching the thing in 4 hours can not possibly be covering the mandatory requirements in any way that are beneficial.
I have personally been told by students from some classes that they didn't learn a thing (I don't know who the instructor was). They went in, got a copy of the test, was told what the answers were, threw some rounds downrange and were told they "passed." They were not comfortable with the laws, nor carrying a concealed hand gun. They paid >$100 for the class, and felt they got nothing out of it. I encouraged them to take their concerns to the NSP, and they were afraid to do so. They said that they did not want to "get anyone in trouble" but came to me to learn about CCW and shooting.
The goal of instructors should be to TEACH students, not merely make money and crank out CCW permits!
As to your defense of the "badges" - okay. I think the NRA ones are ridiculous too!
Who here would like to poke fun at the NRA for selling a Concealed Carry ID holder, that looks very much like what Bruce is selling, only with a NRA twist to it?
I can hint a storm is coming, but I cannot pull you guys out of the rain.
Do you think holding one up to an officer, or holding the other one up, in the first instances, of a shooting, will be instantly and initially recognizable as being any different?
Proof that they could easily be seen the same as one member here had a first impression, the NRA symbol was "ridiculous" and now siding with another member that says there are significant differences.
So it is the quick, very possibly incorrect perception of the viewer (LEO, (or forum member in this instance)) we need to worry about at a shooting scene, not just what may be printed in small type on the pot metal medallion.
I went to Google, and typed in:
"Concealed Weapon Badge & Case"
Guess how many hits that brings up? 830,000.
{snipped the rest of it because it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand}
Regarding the CWP badges.....for what purpose do they serve
To quote Colonel Jeff, "What is it FOR? ......Why, to SELL, of course!"
Caveat Emptor, indeed!
Well there's your problem Gary - you read Wikipedia.
Take a wild guess who is set up at the Fremont Gun Show this weekend... with a table full of Jimenez pistols and CCW badges.
I prefer sticking to issues, rather than post opinions that others in forums have problems.
I would remind my fellow NFOA members, litigation comes in many forms, and forums. Like some of our grandparents taught the fortunate among us, if you have something good to say.......and
If you have not, yet you wish to run down his business, well, that is deep water you are swimming in.
I can hint a storm is coming, but I cannot pull you guys out of the rain.
Do we as members of NRA, GOA, or NFOA have a problem embracing our colors, as we carry concealed?
I wonder how many people here have the gonads to walk up to his table and have a eye to eye talk with this guy, at his table in Fremont? I will say hello to him, and wish him a good day. I guess it is easier to poke fun behind others backs than talk one on one with someone.
I confronted him about them at least a couple times a few years ago and told him how absolutely STUPID I though the badges were. Seems that most others that are well versed in CCW training and what actually happens after a self-defense shooting happen to agree with that conclusion.
I get it,
My wife is a 35 year employee of the State of Nebraska. Every five years, the state gives her a badge, medallion, whatever you want to call it, recognizing her for years of service.
I get it, that most of you guys have a deep seated fear of recognition badges. With several trophy shops up and down O street, do you all break out into sweats, just driving by those places?
I think the folks on this forum are way to paranoid about a symbol of compliance and recognition, which is all a badge is.
Funny, I never wanted one, like I do now.
I want to thank everyone here for participating in this decision on badges, and any more ideas on the subject are welcome.
an NRA Certified Instructorthis is your own personal opinion. I'll note that you took the NRA class only a few weeks ago, you probably haven't even been credentialed yet by the NRA, and you haven't ever taught an NRA class, so I wouldn't throw around that certification too much yet...
I get it, that most of you guys have a deep seated fear of recognition badges. With several trophy shops up and down O street, do you all break out into sweats, just driving by those places?...really isn't going to help you.
I have decided to show a little support for my fellow NRA member, Bruce Swartz, and I will drop by his table tomorrow and purchase one of his badges....I see no reason to push that Mr. Swartz is an NRA member, nor that you are. I'm just not sure why that is relevant. Just like I don't see any reason to continually shout that I'm an NRA Life member, because I didn't do it to gain recognition or make it easier to network.
If you have a CCW permit, you aren't a cop. Don't act like one. And don't portray yourself as one.
NE - Fail the written - good bye
You do have to have mind of mush however to fail Nebraska's written exam.
Stay awake in class and one should get 100%.
If you have an animated and engaging instructor as did I, you won't dare fall asleep !!
I contacted the state patrol officer that was listed earlier by email and also left a voicemail for him. He has not contacted me.
Of the 25 people that took his first class here, I know of only about 3 that are truly qualified to carry a gun. I have spent a ton of time with my wife teaching her to shoot and she also attended the cornered cat class that was listed on this site. Most of the people in his class arrived with no training and left with no training.
Maybe a better word than "qualified" would be "proficient". In my opinion, everyone that has passed the NSP background check and has been issued a CHP was "Qualified" to carry before they were ever issued the CHP. It is just that the state requires a card to demonstrate that qualification.
With that said, the people who attend one of these classes cannot expect it to teach them everything they need to know about concealed carry and/or gun safety. In my opinion, people come to these classes expecting it to BBB all, and all of concealed carry knowledge. While many of these instructors have a great amount of information to impart on the students, there is no way that an eight hour course is all that is needed. The students have to take it upon themselves to further their knowledge, and become more proficient with their firearm.
There was one student in my class who was barely familiar with gun safety, let alone the gun that he had just purchased to carry concealed. I am CDO about my profession and hobbies, so I may be the exception, but I wouldn't consider going to any class without having the fundamentals down at the bare minimum.
Just my opinion, but these students need to spend more time before and after the class becoming proficient.
Fly
The students have to take it upon themselves to further their knowledge, and become more proficient with their firearm.
The YouTube is filled with negligent discharge videos. One occurred almost two years ago, when a fellow shot himself with his Kimberly .45 ACP while practicing a fast draw with a new holster that required thumbing a lever to release the gun from the holster. He received a lot of ridicule and mockery from those who consider themselves perfect and incapable of making a mistake.
Accidents happen to those who attempt skills that are beyond their training, and it happens to those who consider themselves too well trained to have an accident.
I note that he shot himself while using a SERPA holster, which requires using your index (trigger) finger to actuate the release, not the thumb.
NutraSweet